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Losing the triple .....

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1 Losing the triple ..... on Wed 03 Aug 2011, 06:51

Hi,

Am after a bit of advice on wanting to move from a triple (shimano 105) to a compact. As with most things nowadays, I'm trying to do this on the cheap. But still want to use 105 components or better. So can you help - what's the minimum about of groupset I have to change over? Can anyone help me track down these components? ... and even help me swap them over ?

Any help or advice, much appreciated.

Thanks
Paul C

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2 Re: Losing the triple ..... on Wed 03 Aug 2011, 08:55

I'm not totally sure, but I think you'll be best changing over to a hollowtech bottom bracket. As the new 105 compact is hollowtech.

Check out Ribble for the best online prices but you could also contact the club captain as he can get parts at competitive rates.

Oh and don't listen to the Campag fascists on this site, Shimano is the best.

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3 Re: Losing the triple ..... on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 00:04

Hmm, at least beautiful Campagnolo is made in Europe and designed by romantic Italians, the same people who design Ferraris and provided components for the NASA space programme. Shimano is ugly, functional stuff with 'trying too hard' written all over it. Dura Ace stuff works very well indeed (as does my 'fridge), but Shimano make some truely appalling components for use on those kids bikes you see in the foyer in your local Tesco. No thanks, I'll stick to a manufacturer whose founder was an accomplished racing cyclist and whose bottom of the range components aren't made by children in China.

In case you were wondering, I rode my first races on Shimano 600EX (the Ultegra of its day) when I was a a kid and I was very happy with it. Campag was something you had to earn the right to use or else you were considered a spoilt poser. I earned that right and have never looked back.

All joking aside, we need component 'champions' to give biased advice about certain groupsets. What d'you think? A Campag page, and Shimano page and a Sram page? Advice can be given about component compatibility etc?


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4 Re: Losing the triple ..... on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 01:31

Very Happy Obviously the CAMPAGNOLO page would have to be a large one for all the recommendations? Seriously I'm just happy with the reliability and build. It isn't snobbish - I used Sora for years quite happily but wouldn't go back or recommend Shimano now, sorry.


We would have to make the shimano page fairly big though so we could get all the rods, reels, landing nets, keep nets, floats, lures, umbrellas...... I think I made my point. lol!


Suspect Why change from a triple to a compact? Personally I found going compact was frustrating, the range between big rings didn't allow for smooth changing between the two, always having to 'fish' up and down the rear mech for the next compatible gear - or the jump was so great? In fact I went back to 53/39. If I'm going up walls I use a granny ring of 29 on the rear mech (I have a medium rear mech fitted to cater for the chain tension). Hope that wasn't too much information? bounce


Every little helps!.....comrade. alien


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Performance Coaching: Monthly Training Plans: Youth & Junior Development
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5 Re: Losing the triple ..... on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 01:47

I've found that I'm more comfortable with 53/39 for the same reasons Dave has given. I can leave my bike in the 39 ring unless taking a long descent, sprinting for signs or if the hammer goes down and I'm hanging on for grim death.

Campagnolo says that a short cage mech is fine with a 26t sprocket on the back but personally I'd recommend a medium cage mech for anything over a 23t to ensure that the mech isn't under strain when in 53 x 18 or 19 (if you really can't just stay in the 39 ring). Certainly you need a medium cage for a 29t, as Campagnolo say.


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6 Re: Losing the triple ..... on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 06:03

STI Oh that was shimano
Index gears - actually started by Sturmey Archer but perfected by Shimano
Dual Pivot Brakes, or shall we stick to the heavy triangle things that campag used to make, see Pedro Delgado circa 1988.
Concealed brake cables.
The freehub.
and now Di2 electronic shifting that works, sorry mavic you gave it a go but it's something else for campag to copy.

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7 Re: Losing the triple ..... on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 07:18

Oh that old saying: "Shimano did it first". Yes, they stuck a mountain bike gear shifter onto the end of the brake lever arm and were in such a hurry to do it before Campag (they already had pre-production ones in use in Italy) that they forgot to find a way to conceal the cable that they had previously vaunted as being for "aerodynamic" reasons. The Campag Ergo MkI was concealed from the start.

Shimano was a big multi-national corporate business before it took bike components seriously (they started off making very cheap and nasty single freewheels) and made quite a few lemons along the way. Oversize pedal axles ("Dynadrive") which could only be used with 600AX cranks and the 10mm pitch chain were financial embarrassments to them. Of course they were so busy thinking that they knew what we riders wanted that in 1985 they didn't see Look pedals coming despite all their industrial espionage. They over-complicated things with the original SPDs while others came out with, for example, the very simple 'egg beaters'. It seem to remember Shimano acting like a greedy McDonalds and tried to take Sram to court - and lost. There's probably something on Wikipedia about it.

Don't forget that Campagnolo is a family-run business which has never chased every last dollar and have stayed away from the high profit margin low end of the market as they want their name to remain unsullied by such products. Although they have dabbled in off-road equipment they are far and away top quality road bike gruppo suppliers.

I wouldn't say that others copy Shimano, more that Shimano rush things out and others take a more measured view of cycle engineering. These Japanese chaps will never design a pretty item coz they have no soul. Perhaps someone could present me with a bottle of decent Japanese red wine? As I keep saying, my fridge works but I don't stand and admire it; however my complete Campagnolo professional team mechanic's took kit is a work of art in itself, as was the 50th anniversary gold plated Super Record groupset.

Anyway, at least we have found our Shimano 'champion'. Sram anyone?


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Remember when teachers, police officers, nurses, doctors, rank+file civil servants, firefighters and lollipop ladies crashed the stock market, wiped out banks, took billions in bonuses and paid no tax? No, me neither.
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8 Re: Losing the triple ..... on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 07:45

Oh I don't know, my Panasonic bread maker looks pretty hot.

I was always a fan of Suntour as well.

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9 Re: Losing the triple ..... on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 07:53

Ha ha, nice one! I'll have a slice white please.

Yes, I might just look SunTour up and see what happened to them.


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Remember when teachers, police officers, nurses, doctors, rank+file civil servants, firefighters and lollipop ladies crashed the stock market, wiped out banks, took billions in bonuses and paid no tax? No, me neither.
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10 Re: Losing the triple ..... on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 19:14

Very Happy Love it! The Shimano - Campagnolo debate. Carl I have a very nice book on Campagnolo that your more than welcome to have a read, it goes right from birth to modern day.
It's always good to know the enemy? lol!

I love how loud the freewheel sounds on campag, it seems to announce your arrival? alien


SunTour or SR Suntour is a manufacturer of bicycle components. It was Japanese owned and managed, based in Osaka, until the mid 1990s when its name was sold to a Taiwan conglomerate. Its products ranged from suspension forks to derailleurs. SunTour reached a zenith of sales and commercial success from the late 1970s to the mid-1980s.
By 1993, SunTour's share of the market had dropped to five per cent of the U.S. market. At the end of 1994, Mori decided to shut down their bicycle component business. In March 1995 Daisuke Kobayashi and Hideo Hashizume, the former owners of SR Sakae Ringyo, arranged a management buyout. The new management took over in July, 1995, purchasing the SunTour name and the SR factory in Taiwan. Mori Industries left the bicycle component business, selling off SunTour's Japanese facilities piecemeal.
SR SunTour USA closed its U.S. offices in early 1995. The SunTour name lived on as SR Suntour, but the SunTour component designs did not survive. The tooling that produced the once-prized Suntour derailleurs, shifters, and associated bicycle components was sold for scrap.


Also take a look at http://www.srsuntour-cycling.com/index.php?sid=1 alien

Check out the gearbox http://www.srsuntour-cycling.com/dstore/products/V-BOXX/3425/GB10-VB-FR9-BAZ/GB10-VB-FR9-BAZ.html affraid 4.52Kgs



Last edited by trigwill on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 19:31; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : Suntour & SR Suntour)


_________________
British Cycling Level 3 Road & Time-trial Coach alien
Performance Coaching: Monthly Training Plans: Youth & Junior Development
http://www.trigwillcyclecoaching.com
m: 07483944230
e:  trigwill@gmail.com

Regular U18 coaching sessions @ South Downs College Saturday's 0900-1130
www.pnecc.co.uk/coaching.html for further details

bounce PNECC Members get FREE British Cycling RACE BRONZE for 12 months (Quote code: NEWCMRA)  bounce
0161 274 2010 ...you've nothing to lose?
bouncePNECC Youth Members get FREE British Cycling Membership & RACE Licence (first 12 months).......what you waiting for?   affraid
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11 Re: Losing the triple ..... on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 21:01

Cheers Dave, I won't borrow your book as I'm busy reading Mad Men of the Tour. Most informative, I didn't know Louison Bobet was a part of the Italian Resistance movement in the war and that Jacques Auquetil married half of his family. That said however if I feel the pull to the dark side then I'll have a lend. Anyway here's one that used to be thrown around the bike shop I used to work at a few years ago.

How many bike mechanics does it take to change a light bulb?

One, unless the bulb is made by Shimano then you have to rewire the whole house.



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12 Re: Losing the triple ..... on Thu 03 Nov 2011, 04:36

LOL! Laughing


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Remember when teachers, police officers, nurses, doctors, rank+file civil servants, firefighters and lollipop ladies crashed the stock market, wiped out banks, took billions in bonuses and paid no tax? No, me neither.
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13 Re: Losing the triple ..... on Mon 07 Nov 2011, 21:13

affraid Paul C.......did that answer your question? lol!


_________________
British Cycling Level 3 Road & Time-trial Coach alien
Performance Coaching: Monthly Training Plans: Youth & Junior Development
http://www.trigwillcyclecoaching.com
m: 07483944230
e:  trigwill@gmail.com

Regular U18 coaching sessions @ South Downs College Saturday's 0900-1130
www.pnecc.co.uk/coaching.html for further details

bounce PNECC Members get FREE British Cycling RACE BRONZE for 12 months (Quote code: NEWCMRA)  bounce
0161 274 2010 ...you've nothing to lose?
bouncePNECC Youth Members get FREE British Cycling Membership & RACE Licence (first 12 months).......what you waiting for?   affraid
http://www.pnecc.co.uk/youthcoaching.html
View user profile http://www.trigwillcyclecoaching.com

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